Trango MaxCam & Superfly reviews

-----Original Message-----
From: Angela Hawse [mailto:alpinist007@mac.com]
Sent: Fri 11/3/2006 12:20 PM
To: Malcolm Daly
Subject: Alpinist review

Glad to see that you submitted the superfly and max cam for review on 
the mountain standards!  Assume you have seen the reviews?  If not, 
check it out at:

Alpinist Mountain Standards

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also on:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/86874

 

mattm	Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:37 am    Post subject: Max Cam: First Hands On    Oh the glory! In less than two weeks I've gotten my grubby little paws on TWO of the new "extended range cams" Last week was the Link cam by OP and this weeks edition is the Trango Max Cam (leaving only the Metolius product to "touch") Another Tues night at the gym and what's this? Another Rep DEMO - SWEET! Talking with the rep before the official show lets me get a good one on one with the new MaxCam - He only had the yellow (#2 I believe) but that's fine since that's one of the "money" cams size wise. Deep breath... here we go.... Physical Impressions: LIGHT - as soon I picked this cam up I said "Damn - this is light" Specs confirm this: A #2 MaxCam runs you 150g as where a #2 C4 will run you 158g. So far so good. Build quality - although not as polished as the DMM/WC stuff (who is though?) these cams were well made. Utilizing a single stem which attached ala the old #1 camalots at the top with a thumb loop at the bottom I liked the fit in my hand. The stem is flexible, more so than a C4 but not like an alien - somewhere in between. The whole cable is also wrapped in a rubbery plastic that's softer than BDs. Trigger pull was smooth and long (insert joke here) so if you have very small hands I'd check the "fit" first. I think this will be the case with any of the extended range cams though. The springs seemed a tad bit soft for my taste BUT I was told the unit I had was a "near production" version and had hand wound springs so I'd bet the production model is improved to the right "feel". Trango peens their axle ends like BD so nothing is different there. Trango, like DMM, puts extendible slings on their loops. Nice, but I wish they had made them slightly longer like the new DMM procams. Take that opinion with a grain of salt though since I've been accused of being the "Great Extender" on occasion. Overall - not as nice as DMM but quite nice. Think Audi All Road vs Subaru Outback LL Bean... Use: "Great Great - they're nicely built - But How do they PLACE?!?" Glad you asked - once again a jaunt over to the fake crack was made and some "testing" commenced. The first obvious thing I noticed was that these cams fall right smack dab in the middle of the "range war". The link cam, with the 2.5:1 ratio wins overall with the MaxCam in second right now at 2:1. C4's are 1.66:1 I believe and "normal" cams 1.5:1. What does all that mean though? Well, here's the interesting thing - unlike the LinkCams which I think are more specialty pieces, I don't think MaxCams will give you the ability to carry "less gear". What I mean is you'll still want the full size run just like you would C4s or TechFriends. If you look at the size comparison of a #2 MaxCam (1.3 - 2.6in) and #2 C4 (1.46 - 2.55) You'll see that all this really means is you'll be able to stuff the MaxCam in a slightly smaller crack. The nice part of this though is that you don't have to relearn any sizing. (Not an accident I'm sure - color coding as well....) I think the extra range WILL improve flared placements though. Placing - Here's where it gets interesting: You don't place these suckers the same way you would a normal (ie outer and inner cams the same size) cam. When I first started sticking it in the crack I inserted cable equidistant from both walls like you would all the cams you're used to so far. If you do it this way however, the inner lobes are much closer to the wall than the outer lobes due to the offset nature of the cable and what is essentially a "virtual pivot point". See Pat Diagram What I discovered with this is that when you do this and deploy the cams they don't deploy at equal rates. The inner cams, being closer to the rock make contact first and stop. The outer cams keep going and more often than not over deploy giving you a tipped out placement on the outer lobes. I believe part of this is due to the fact the the out lobes float on the inner ones. "Well that doesn't sound good Matt!" Not to fear, after a little more tinkering - I found the answer. Essentially, you're dealing with a new (and very cool ) design and as such you need to learn new techniques like this. What I found is when you place the cam you need to insert it into the crack "offset" just like the axle is. If you place the MaxCam into the crack with the outer lobes already touching the crack wall ( the cable stem should be closer to the same wall as well) and then deploy the cams - a nifty thing happens. The outer cams "push" the inner lobes across the crack into a proper position thus avoiding tipped out outer lobes. It's a little hard to describe but once you do it you'll see what I mean. Once I figured this out (easy short way to say it would be insert cam with cable close to one side and outer lobes already in contact with rock) the max cams placed really well and worked noticeably better in flared placements. Good stuff. Bottom Line: Well made and light weight these cams are a serious new contender in the cam world. You won't be buying less of them but they'll weigh less and give you slightly better options for placements in the equivalent size. Because of their new design you'll have to practice a little more at first with your placement technique but that shouldn't be a big deal for long. As with other new cams, I haven't been able to test them outside yet so I leave final judgment on them till then. In the meantime though, if you're in the market for new cams and can wait till May I'd give the MaxCams a serious look in addition to C4s and the rest. You may just find yourself joining the new Extended Range Revolution sooner than you thought. Last edited by mattm on Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
easton	Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    mattm wrote: Once I figured this out (easy short way to say it would be insert cam with cable close to one side and outer lobes already in contact with rock) the max cams placed really well and worked noticeably better in flared placements. Good stuff. How would this affect a blind placement? I like my Camalots because I know how to put them in without seeing it. Can you learn this new placement and do it by feel? Nice write-up by the way.
j_ung	Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    easton wrote: mattm wrote: Once I figured this out (easy short way to say it would be insert cam with cable close to one side and outer lobes already in contact with rock) the max cams placed really well and worked noticeably better in flared placements. Good stuff. How would this affect a blind placement? I like my Camalots because I know how to put them in without seeing it. Can you learn this new placement and do it by feel? Nice write-up by the way. Yes, you can, but like he said it takes a little practice. Matt, this is a great post! Trophy for you! I may be able to compliment your experiences somewhat, but I'm afraid you'll have to wait a few more weeks. I'm mid test of the Metolius Supercam and even fallen on it. Placement-wise, it's exactly like you just described the Max cam, e.g., offset and it takes a little getting used to. I've been plugging that puppy left and right, though, and so far I have no complaints.
billcoe_	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    Nice post Matt, from all of us a heartfelt thank you: J ung, thanks for the comparison notes, I wish one of you had both the Metolius and the Trango to compare side by side. Warm Regards; Bill
dingus	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    Concur on the useful and indepth review. Thanks. DMT
j_ung	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    billcoe_ wrote: Nice post Matt, from all of us a heartfelt thank you: J ung, thanks for the comparison notes, I wish one of you had both the Metolius and the Trango to compare side by side. Warm Regards; Bill I've played a little bit with the Max Cam, too, though I also haven't actually climbed with it yet. Initial impression: they're both fantastic. More details soon...
maculated	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    Excellent write-up. My partner and I have climbed every route lately using the Max Cam (and, like the hybrid Aliens I bought last summer, cheering mightily when placing them). We do employ a bit of an off-set placement when we use it, but it's a #2 size and I think that it places a lot more like a BD cam as it gets higher. It also doesn't walk as much, and I like to think that's the way the stem is made - it pivots up and down, isn't rigidly fixed (but just as flexible as the BD) like other SLCDs I've seen. And he's right, flared cracks are pretty great. Even in close placements, we've not had to jimmy at the cam at all, because of the added range. People keep talking about that bit of metal that sticks out the trop, but why it looks like that is because they cut off one of the full spirals that would be there on a BD. It doesn't extend more than a 1/4" past a #2 BD. I likey. And my gear-whore partner likey so much he's going to get a whole set when they go public.
hosh	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    Wow, so excited that I had the "rate" option today! Trophy for sure. This new cam revolution is exciting, makes me rethink the rest of my gear... hosh.
tenesmus	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    Heard a ton about the Max Cam, but how is it supposed to compare to the Metolius Supercams? Sounds like a similar principle, but how does their range compare? Weight etc?
maculated	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    Personally, I don't like the SuperCams, but haven't used them yet - they have a 270 degree pivot which makes them a lot more lopsided, and they are fairly heavy in comparison to the Max and C4. They looklike they would walk a lot more, too.
pawilkes	Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Max Cam: First Hands On    all this talk of the Max cam has me wondering about the New Flex Cams. has anyone used them? it seems like people are pretty happy with Trangos quality and design from what i see on this thread and was wondering if the same goes for the New Flex cams. any one use 'em?

Maxcam Reviews--Rock Climbing Forum:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/91927

Author	Message
eyecannon	Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:51 pm     I received a lovely package today containing two hybrid aliens and a #1 Maxcam. I was extremely shocked that the Maxcam was there, especially since I ordered the 2, 3 and 4 but not the #1. Oh well, I called Mgear and told them I'd keep it. Initial impressions are mixed, the cams are nice and wide, good action, and the cable centers well. However, the trigger bar is a bit short so only about 1/2 or 3/4 of your finger fits on it, and the shrink tubing on it is a bit crappy in appearance. Nice and light though, can't wait to place it this weekend! It's strange because I heard the release was pushed way back (again and again), but I have it here in my hand... EDIT: NOW WITH PICS click for HUGE #1 Maxcam, #1 C4, purple Alien Check out the width on those inner cams! What the?!? There's cams attatched to other cams! Trigger bar a bit teeny, and I don't have very large fingers 10kN?! The Trango website says the #1 is 12kN, Mgear has it listed as 13kN Tag is paper under the tubing and it looks kinda crappy RAWR Last edited by eyecannon on Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
gymnastc	Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:33 pm     Yes, I got a package in the mail on Friday afternoon, just in time for my trip to North Conway! I opened the box and there were the sizes 1 and 2 MaxCams sitting there! I didn't think thay would have arrived before my trip, so I was happily surprised. The first placement I made with any pro for the weekend was with the number 2. As I was placing it, I was a bit skeptical. I thought that increasing the number of axles may make the piece less sturdy in its placement and be more prone to walking. However, after placing it in the crack, I pulled on it as hard as I could downwards and outward a bit, to make sure that it wouldn't move. That thing was solid! That weekend, I think I placed the number 2 the most out of any piece I had. The only thing that took some getting used to though was that the lobes would sometimes be a bit offset, due to the difference in the size of each side. However, this problem was fixed by just placing the piece again, and getting used to how they set into the cracks. Overall, thumbs up to Trango! Chris
renohandjams	Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:59 am     Start climbing on them ASAP and give us your own reviews. Let the other, not so fortunate climbers know what you think. If you don't think the max cams do very well then maybe you can save us some money by not getting any. -Kenny ------------------------ TradRack.com SuperStore Free Email Accounts, yourname@TradRack.com, only 100 to give Click here to see if your name is available
chanceboarder	Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:11 am     nice david! congrats on your new toys. yeah moutain gear currently has #1 and #2 max cams in stock and ready for shipping. the remaining sizes are not expected to become available until early august according to the email i got from them. i got a #2 myself which goes in the mail today so hopefully i'll have it by the weekend if i'm lucky. i've already had the chance to lead a couple easy pitches in tahquitz a few weeks ago using a full set of max cams a friend of mine somehow got his hands on. can't wait to add some of these to my rack of BD's.
treez	Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:34 pm     I just got my #1 that I ordered in march today. I wish I'd ordered more I think. It has the nice loop of the C4 and double sling of the zero. I like the looks of the teeth also. It just missed last weekend's trip to the Towers. I hope it's sunny this weekend, I can't wait to scratch this thing up!
chanceboarder	Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:54 pm     Instead of creating a new thread I’ll add my review of the new Trango Max Cam to this one and compare it to my C4’s. I received my #2 Max Cam last Friday from Mgear just in time to test it out at Holcomb Valley Saturday. Out of the box the cam was squeaky when retracting the cam lobes, a problem easily solved with a little lube. After a little bit of lube the Max Cam retracts and opens with a very smooth and fluid motion. The spring tension feels the same as my #2 C4 when retracting the cam. The trigger bar on the Max Cam in size is around a ¼ inch wider then on the C4 but the trigger wires are much closer to the ends of the Max Cam’s trigger bar while the trigger wires on the C4 are much closer to the center allowing more room for your fingers to grasp the bar. This results in not only less room to grasp the bar with your fingers but they are also much wider apart which for people with smaller hands maybe feel uncomfortable. Another issue involving the trigger bar on the Max Cam it that it is approximately ¾ of an inch farther away from the thumb loop then on the C4. Once again for people with smaller hands this may be uncomfortable as the reach will be longer. The reason there is a longer reach is because the stem is about ¾ of an inch longer then the C4, the up side though is that you’ll be able to reach a placement slightly farther away, possibly an issue for an aid climber but I would gladly trade that extra reach for a more comfortable feel in my hands. The last issue with the trigger bar that I’ve come across has been the back and forth movement of the bar and the tendency to pull one side of the bar farther then the other resulting in one side of the cam lobes being retracted more then the other. The C4 seem to have a more balanced trigger possibly due to the trigger wires being closer to the center and I tend to retract all four cam lobes equally all the time. That’s just something one can learn to deal with and learn not do with the max cam. The Max Cams thumb loop is slightly smaller then the C4’s. This leads to a smaller surface area for which your thumb to rest on when retracting the cam. I felt the area was a bit too small for my thumbs (which are not that big) and felt like they were being slightly pinched between the sides of the loop. The area where my thumb rests on the C4 feels much more comfortable to me. This is my first cam with an extendable sling and I have to say I’m not a fan of these ones. When the sling is doubled up it is a mere 3 inches long, which is only slightly shorter then the C4 by maybe half an inch. When extended the sling is 6 inches long, which I feel is way too short to do any real good. I would still extend it with one of my doubled up 24 inch trad draws making the extendable sling on the Max Cam rather pointless to me. A friend of mine already got his hands on a full set and within a week had cut the slings off all of them and sent them to be reslung with a 4” open sling just like those found on Aliens. I think I agree with him on this and will probably do the same thing as I found clipping the doubled up sling cumbersome and clipping the extended sling pointless. Now on to some of the things I like about the Max Cam. While at first I might have set the cam in place a little bit offset but after placing the came a couple times I found it very easy and fast to place just like my C4’s. When placed the cam felt very solid and I would have no problems taking a nice fall on it. When placing both the Max Cam and the C4 in the same spot and at the same angle in several different situations I found that I could get my C4 to walk more from up/down and side to side movement then I could the Max Cam. I often found that I could not get the Max Cam to walk at all which I found very nice. I think the Max Cam weighs slightly less just by picking them both up but not enough that I think will max a difference when carry a whole rack of them. I’ve also found that the expansion range on the Max Cam to be nearly the as the C4 and is not enough to make a difference. The head with is also the nearly the same in both cams and both inner and out cam lobes are the pretty much the same width and distance apart giving it no advantage of being able to be placed in narrower spots. The cost is also nearly the same. Mgear is selling the #2 Max Cam for $59.95 and the #2 C4 for $62.50 a difference of only a few dollars. Overall I think Trango has come out with a nice cam that I think out shines most other cams with the exception of the C4. Because this #2 is the only one I’ve been able to really sit down and play with I’m going to leave judgment a the remaining sizes until I can really get my hands on them too. Personally the Max Cam wont be replacing my C4’s as my primary cam is may just find its way onto my rack as a second set. I’m gonna have to wait a while and use this cam some more to see if I really want to get the remaining sizes. Hope this review helps some of you who may be thinking about picking up some of these cams. Cheers, Jason